Carl Anthony Payne II doesn’t just hold a place in television history—he helped build the blueprint.

From his breakout run as Walter “Cockroach” Bradley on The Cosby Show to his iconic portrayal of the lovable, hat-wearing Cole Brown on Martin, Payne spent the late 1980s and ’90s serving as an indispensable engine of Black sitcom culture. Decades later, his lines are still quoted daily, his character dynamics remain standard-setting, and his transition into directing and producing proves that his comedic genius was never an accident—it was the result of a deeply rooted, classically trained discipline.

Sitting down for an intimate, wide-ranging conversation, Payne opened up about the raw alchemy of ’90s sitcoms, the untold backstories behind television’s greatest moments, the business lessons learned the hard way, and why he refuses to ever let Hollywood place him in a box.

The Unscripted Genius of Martin

When fans rewatch Martin, the physical comedy, slapstick timing, and lightning-fast banter feel entirely effortless. But according to Payne, the magic of the show lay in the rare freedom the cast was granted to construct moments far beyond what was typed on the script pages.

“More was scripted on the page for The Cosby Show than on Martin,” Payne explained to ScoopB.com by phone. “There were a lot more moments that were made up on the fly on Martin. I’d say 80% of the stuff—especially the physical stuff and things of that nature—was made up on the fly.”

That spontaneous energy created a program that resonated far beyond its initial broadcast run. Yet, in the middle of shooting on set, none of the cast members were calculating their future legacy. They were simply focused on the work, leaning into their chemistry, and enjoying the process.

“Not a clue,” Payne admitted when asked if he knew the show would retain such massive cultural staying power decades later. “Not at all. It’s one of those things where you were just showing up every day and doing what we loved to do. As a matter of fact, we were having so much fun at one point that I was like, ‘Why are they paying us to do this? This is the best job on the planet.’“

Sneakers, Style and Giving Back

Long before unboxing videos, brand deals, and secondary sneaker markets generated billions of dollars, Martin and Living Single served as low-key fashion runways for hip-hop and basketball culture. Backed by major corporate sponsorships, Payne and his castmates had direct access to the premier footwear of the era.

“Can’t name them all offhand, but the Bo Jacksons for sure,” Payne recalled. “Nike was our sponsor, so we were actually able to go to the Nike headquarters or order whatever we wanted at any given time.”

Yet, having grown up unable to afford premier sneakers, Payne’s relationship with those industry perks was grounded in empathy rather than clout or hoarding collection boxes.

“In hindsight, I wish I knew then what I know now,” he reflected with a laugh. “That’s the old adage, but it’s true. Now people get boxes and do unboxings from all these brands and actually get paid for it! It’s crazy. Growing up, we couldn’t afford sneakers. Did I appreciate it when we were able to get them as an adult? Sure. But that’s as far as it went. I didn’t know it would become a cultural thing. Because I couldn’t afford them growing up, whenever I got tired of my sneakers—because I’d always keep them clean and fresh—I would give them away to less fortunate people. That’s who I was at one point. Had I known these same sneakers were going to be coveted and worth… I sure would have kept every single one of them!”

Backstage Lore: Emmy Surprises, Biggie and Cosby Callbacks

That broad, lasting reach was put on full display at the Primetime Emmy Awards, where the surviving cast of Martin reunited on stage to present an award—and received a thunderous standing ovation from a room packed with Hollywood royalty.

“It was nice. It was really nice,” Payne reflected. “During the time, you only felt like—even though it won’t make sense—we knew what we meant culturally to our culture, but not necessarily to the industry as a whole. You feel the love from your own community, but you don’t realize how far that reach goes. That’s what happened that night in terms of everyone I ran into backstage—from Jo Koy to Ken Jeong. They were all fans of the show. Backstage, they were acting the same way I’d act! They were like, ‘Oh my god!’ And having peers like Trevor Noah say, ‘Dude, I grew up watching you.’These are people you admire now. So knowing that long after the show was over, other comedians and people were still inspired by it… it would’ve been nice to have actually won an Emmy back then to know! But then again, we put too much energy and credit into accolades. It actually means more to me that audiences and different communities around the world were affected by our show.”

Payne also looked back on the legendary guest stars who graced the Martin set, including the late Notorious B.I.G., whose calm presence left an indelible mark during his iconic guest appearance.

“Exactly how I imagined him to be: cool as shit,” Payne said of Biggie. “The epitome of cool. Smooth, down to earth. But let me be clear—he had Harlem energy on set. He didn’t give off Brooklyn energy on set! But super cool, mad cool, humble, exuded swag. I was like, ‘I get it now.’“

The behind-the-scenes magic was equally evident in iconic sketches like the infamous New Jack City dog scene, which Payne revealed was born out of pure on-set adaptation when plans fell through.

“We were supposed to have a real dog,” Payne shared. “We rehearsed all week without a dog, saw the dog the day before, and then on the day of shooting… no dog! So everything that transpired with the fake dog was genius, in the moment, and kept on camera. It was almost like a sketch. One of those magic moments you can’t recreate.”

Reaching back even further to his youth on The Cosby Show, Payne dropped staggering industry lore regarding the final callbacks for the role of Theo Huxtable in California—a room that contained a young Jaleel White, Sheryl Lee Ralph, and Ja’Net DuBois.

“Jaleel White was up for the part of Rudy before they decided whether Rudy was going to be a boy or a girl,” Payne revealed. “He was one of the finals. They didn’t know if they wanted to make Rudy a boy or a girl! And Samuel L. Jackson was Bill Cosby’s stand-in back then! Before Bill came out, we’d rehearsed with Sam Jackson. And I remember when Lisa Bonet first brought Lenny Kravitz—he was going by ‘Romeo Blue’ back then—to the set! We were like, ‘Who is this half-naked dude?’ But this was before anyone had foresight to know what everyone would become.”

Unlocking the Great Sitcom Mystery: Tommy’s Job

For decades, Martin fans have fiercely debated one central mystery: What did Tommy do for a living? While pop culture turned Tommy’s employment status into an enduring running joke, Payne set the record straight on the canon truth that many viewers overlooked.

“There are a lot of Easter eggs people missed on our show,” Payne revealed. “Tommy worked for the Boys & Girls Club! He actually said it in one of the episodes. He said this! But it was also based on Tommy wanting to establish who he was in the show… It became really funny to play with because that happened in our own lives—how many people in your neighborhood do you know who were fly, but you never knew what they did? They were fly, but you never knew what they did! And so that’s also how you keep your finger on the pulse of the culture, and keep it true to what different people can relate to. And then you just let people make up what they want to make up.”

Step Outside the Box: Directing, Drama and Independence

While mainstream audiences often define actors strictly by their most famous comedic roles, Payne’s foundation was built on rigorous classical theater training at LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts and drama studies at Howard University. That deep classical background enabled him to comfortably step into leading roles in dramatic indie thrillers like The Grove, as well as direct independent films like Misguided Behavior and helm episodes for major television series like Tyler Perry’s Young Dylan and House of Payne.

“Because I was never in a box,” Payne emphasized when asked what draws him to suspense and drama. “People want to put you in a box, but nobody belongs in a box except the one you put yourself in. Nobody can put you in a box but yourself. I grew up studying theater—classical training first, Shakespeare. Just because you make it as one thing doesn’t mean you can’t do other things. Who would’ve ever thought Jamie Foxx from In Living Color would win an Oscar for playing Ray Charles? So many people couldn’t see it. Outside of God, you know who you are and what you’re capable of. So you look for those roles, and if you can’t find them, you create them.”

That transition behind the camera altered how he approaches performance altogether.

“I think it’s the other way around—being an actor first affects how I direct,” Payne noted. “Sometimes there are directors who have a vision, but they don’t work with the actor. They only care about their vision; they don’t allow the actor to collaborate or explore. Because I was an actor first, it helps me know how to be generous, how to play on a team as a team. A leader is only as good as his team, and then they trust him to make that vision come true.”

As a director guiding young talent on network sets, Payne brings a protective, nurturing methodology focused on insulating young performers from the high-pressure demands of the entertainment industry.

“It’s about trust,” Payne said. “Making sure they still stay tapped into that innocence so it doesn’t become performative. Kids have so many bad examples nowadays of what acting should be. Years ago, I couldn’t get on a kids show because I thought everybody was overacting, and I wasn’t taught that! But once you wrap your head around the tone, you realize it’s an exaggerated version of real life. So I tell kids: ‘Just be yourself. Keep that same wonder, innocence, and imagination, but don’t be performative.’ And then there’s managing the parents! Sometimes the parents live vicariously through their kids. You’ve got to remind them that everything in this business has a shelf life, so stay humble.”

The Business of Survival and Staying Grounded

Navigating decades in an industry notorious for short shelf lives and sudden shifts requires more than talent—it demands sharp business literacy and emotional perspective. Expanding his business footprint into Atlanta with his company, Kamp Entertainment, Payne recognized early on where production tides were turning.

“Understanding the business aspect as a whole is key,” Payne stressed. “Unfortunately, you find out a lot of these things the hard way. You don’t get what you deserve in this business; you get what you negotiate. There are a lot of gatekeepers. Knowing how to navigate that and having someone you can actually trust to help navigate those waters is critical.”

When advising the next generation of digital creators building independent platforms, Payne urges them to prioritize originality over chasing algorithms.

“Constantly monitor the way the business aspect is changing and shifting,” Payne advised. “Ask yourself: What makes you different from everybody else? What’s your originality and your point of view? Create your own algorithm, your own blueprint, your own lane and audience. Look at Tyler Perry. People wanted to talk about what he was doing, but he created his own lane and audience, and wherever he went, they went. Now look at him—a billionaire with his own studio, creating jobs for hundreds of thousands of people.”

Through the noise, fame, and changing industry paradigms, Payne credits his family and a firm sense of reality for keeping him grounded over a thriving multi-decade career.

“Understanding what family means, making sure you make time for them and keep them a priority,” Payne said quietly. “Never taking yourself too seriously or believe any type of hype. If someone says, ‘Oh, he fell off,’ or ‘Where have you been?’—you don’t know what I’ve been doing, and that’s fine. I haven’t fallen victim to words like ‘staying relevant.’ We give so much credit and validation to things that pop up that have been done a million times before. You stay grounded by not feeding into the same machine everyone else wants to feed into.”

Ultimately, Carl Anthony Payne II’s career stands as a masterclass in versatility. Whether commanding a live audience with stand-up comedy, steering a set as a director, or delivering unforgettable characters on screen, Payne remains a master of his craft—always evolving, never boxed in, and continuously writing his own story.